Dark Humor and Deep Feelings: Healing After Tragedy with Jake | The Day After Ep. 19

Welcome back to The Day After, a podcast dedicated to sharing stories and navigating grief together. In today's episode, we are joined by stand-up comic Jake.

Jake shares an incredible journey through love, loss, and finding light in the darkest of times. He opens up about his relationship with Jen, a fellow comedian who struggled with bipolar disorder and addiction. Her tragic passing in November 2022 left a significant impact on Jake, both personally and professionally.

Together with CJ and Ashley, Jake shares his journey of navigating the complex emotions surrounding mental health, grief, and the often stigmatized conversations about suicide. With raw vulnerability, he recounts his experiences—from intense moments of crisis intervention to profound spiritual connections, highlighting the importance of a supportive community and the struggle to find joy amid sorrow.

CJ, Ashley, and Jake also discuss the limitations and failures within mental health services, the role of humor as a coping mechanism, and the bittersweet memories that keep loved ones close. This episode is a powerful testament to the human capacity for healing, the enigmas of spiritual signs, and the unwavering hope that transcends even the gravest of losses.

Grab your headphones and join us on this heartfelt journey of resilience, empathy, and the indomitable spirit of laughter, even in the face of overwhelming grief.

Trigger Warning: This episode talks about suicide and mental health issues, which may be upsetting for some listeners.

Transcript

CJ: 0:00

Hey, I wanted to give a trigger warning that in this episode, we do discuss suicide and suicide attempts. If this is something that is difficult for you, please pass on this episode, and we'll see you next time.

Jake: 0:22

My name is Jake and I am a stand up comic in Buffalo, New York, which is important to this story. In November of 2019 I met a woman named Jen or who came around to the open mics and Buffalo and before long start performing comedy. And then the summer of 2020, when the pandemic hit, we ended up just hanging out and ended up. Started a romantic relationship, dating, falling in love. And right off the start, she, was very open about her mental health struggles that she had been diagnosed bipolar for well over 20 years at that point. And you know, as a young teenager, she was diagnosed and it was very clear that she enjoyed, you know, I mean, we both enjoyed drinking and, you know, miscellaneous activities, but, you know, you don't really realize It's masking something until you get to know someone's personality with and without it. So, it wasn't, you know, she was very open, like I said, about her mental health, but then probably five months into dating she had lost her grandma. And I sort of got a glimpse into how drugs and alcohol played with her mental health and kind of got a real Taste of the bipolar disorder.

Ashley: 1:35

And,

Jake: 1:35

It didn't change anything other than I kind of realized how serious it was. And then, you know, we ended up dating for a total of two years, but during the pandemic, most of the pandemic, she didn't have a job. So she ended up getting a job at a local music venue in Buffalo. She fell in love with it. It was a job that was perfect for someone who loves adrenaline. It was a job where you could drink during events when you work during events. So, that was kind of a problem, but she poured her heart and soul into the job. Eventually lost the job in June. of 2022 after asking for a raise. So sort of a very unjust situation

Ashley: 2:17

where she

Jake: 2:17

ended up getting the labor board involved. And that just started a terrible spiral into her mental health decline to the point where. Just a couple months later, while we were, you know, she was house sitting for our landlady and her mental health had started to get real poor and she was texting me things. She ended up texting me a text message that straight up said, I'm going to kill myself in September. So that turned into you know, obviously I was very high alert. We would talk about things. And then that September there was an incident where. She came home drunk, woke me up, an argument ensued, things got very scary, to where there was an attempt with knives, and she had to go to the hospital and get stitched up, and that put her whole family back on alert, her family had dealt with this the whole time, so they, you know, had stories of things being really dark, so this was just one of those instances of, okay, we're paying attention again, like. What's going on, kiddo. And then we ended up, I ended up telling her family about the text message, cause at that point I had not. And then her brother agreed that we should get crisis services involved. And that was a situation where I realized how, cause she had always told me how bad the mental health care was, especially in New York state. And she had experienced it in other states like Minnesota and Massachusetts, cause she had lived elsewhere. But this was an instance where I realized that even a text message that said she had intention to kill herself was you know, mental health crisis services, straight up Polish. She's just seeking attention. And that was, yeah. So that, I mean, Jen was amazing at talking her way in and out of things, but this was like, Hey, we still We have a text message here. And, you know, that was a moment where I realized, okay, this is all up to her now. And that you know, part of mental health illness that people don't realize is, you know, when things get bad, people try to push you away. And this had begun her really trying to push everyone away. And you know, we had been living together for well over a year at this point. So we're, she was kind of stuck with me and tried pushing me away. But it got to the point where I was like, listen, I'm Here with you, what you're going through is obviously tough, but like the drinking has to stop, like it turned into a, Hey, it's okay to not be okay. But like the way you're dealing with it needs to change. So I tried to just show support. And after that incident, I stopped drinking. Yeah, yeah. So she kind of thought that I was just trying to be like, Oh, if I can do it, you can do it when it was more like, no, I need to do this for myself too. So, and it turned into where. She had realized she had never lived a life without alcohol and for someone to realize that, you know, your whole life is going to be is now going to be trying not to drink or trying not to do drugs like it's not something that just goes away after a year of not doing it. Or 20 years of not doing it. So it was very clear that she was overwhelmed and intimidated by changing the addiction and the alcoholism. And she admitted to me through text that drinking was a problem and that she knew she had to change. But She was seen seeking therapists, you know, doing all the quote unquote, right things. They were putting her on crazy medications. You know, I was witnessing all of this where she was having severe panic attacks. And again, this was no, this was nothing new for her. She was like, just screaming for help. But the thing was with the crisis services is the two options were, you know, you go to ECMC, which is a living hell for anyone who's ever been there. Transcribed Or, you know, do what she did and talk your way out of it. So, you know, she was trying so hard, working so hard. And for the last year at this point was dealing with her mother, you know, no longer being a part of the family. And, you know, her mother having a new relationship. So she was grieving, you know, people who are still alive. She was grieving her grandmother. She was dealing with the loss of a career and just feeling completely lost. And with COVID and everything, like she was just an understandable storm of emotions. And, you know, From September to November, she was working really hard on herself. And there was still a couple moments where she tried pushing me away to the point where I would pack up my things to leave. And she was like, do you really want this? And I was like, no, but. This needs to change. You can't be kicking me out of our own home and all these things where she was really trying. And then we had this weekend in November planned where we, you know, every day of the weekend, we were just going to do something, go out to the comedy show or go to the bills game and whatnot. And then everything kind of resurfaced, like her mom reached out to her and just, She started drinking that weekend, and it just turned into just the arguments, the wanting to fight about this fight about that. And that weekend, you know, it just everything resurfaced to the point where she was trying to push me away again. And then, you know, that Monday, Tuesday, I was like, okay, whatever, then like, It is what it is. And she went out that Monday night. And again, I just stayed home, slept, and then didn't even really hear her come home, but woke up the next morning. And came downstairs, was walking down the stairs and found that she had taken her own life and hung herself.

Ashley: 7:56

So

Jake: 7:57

it was completely I mean, the first thought to cross my mind was you didn't know you didn't do it. You didn't do it. You didn't do it. But in the meantime, also being like, this was exactly what we were scared of. So while You are still scared of it happening. Once it happens, you're still like, no, you can't, this can't be real to the point where like part of your brain is just like, no, she's still breathing. She's okay. And, and right away, you know, I called her brother who I had no idea because we, she wasn't talking to him and he was not even in town, he was in Vegas. So he ended up calling. You know, their dad and then I called 911. They showed up, the fireman right away was like, you know, this is a suicide. And they told me like on the phone, like I had permission to cut her down. And so like she was laying there and they, but the cops showed up and then it right away turned into obviously like, they don't know what's going on. So I'm a quote unquote suspect. And you know, they're not, they don't, they don't tell you that. So as like, you know, I'm like trying to get a shirt on, they're like, follow me around. This cop takes me outside and he's like, you know, I need your name and number or, you know, just, he's just grilling me. But as soon as we get outside, her dad's already there. And he's just, you know, I give him a hug and this like was crazy, but it, it literally is like, what's what stopped the quote unquote investigation as her dad just said, you know, you were the best thing that ever happened to her. And asked how she took her life. He goes, did she just like take a bunch of pills or what? And then I told them, and then he obviously understandably broke down and right away, the cop's demeanor changed. So that, that whole part of it right there was like, wow, even. In the one instance when you just need someone to give you a hug, like the police don't give a fuck. And it, it is what it is. Like I get it. Everyone has a job to do. But even after he like understood what had happened, there was no sensitivity at all. And you know, then I still have to talk to an investigator and all these things where, you know, you tell them, Hey, we reached out to you guys and nothing happened. And like, they just try so hard with the, well were you guys arguing or this, that, you know. Has she hit you? Have you? And you're like, dude, like I already went through all this with, you know, mental health resources. So, and they, and within like a minute of me stepping out of the house, a woman with two officers next to her hands me a card to seek mental health help. And I'm just like, the person that needed this is in a body bag right now, you know? So it was just right away, very, very intense where I was just. Realizing, you know, that even when things go terribly wrong, like there's no help from, you know, the people that are supposed to help you sometimes. And then so that was, you know, a Tuesday in November, November 15th, 2022. And, you know, obviously I have not been the same person since. And but with, I mean, obviously there's so many layers to the story, but that's like the quickest way I think I could Describe what happened.

CJ: 11:13

Yeah, I appreciate that. That's very intense. I'm, I guess to take it back a little bit, the, that text that you received in September, like what is the.

Jake: 11:30

I mean, I called her right away and was kind of like, Hey, you know, like this is a serious thing to text someone because she had texted it in a way where like you have to press on it to reveal it, which I didn't even know was an iPhone feature at the time. So I was kind of like, I was like, I was like, Hey I mean, you could still take a screenshot of it, but I was like, Hey, like, what's this about here? And she had so far said, like, she had a plan to drive the car off the cliff, but the dog she was watching is what kept her from doing it. So I was like, okay, so this is, you know, this is pretty serious. Like she has, you know, a plan in place. And, you know, if I'm being honest from Like the point of September, November, I'm sure there was time. Cause there was times she would just sleep in so late when I, you know, cause I was working that there was times looking back on, I was like, Oh, she definitely tried to take too many pills. And like, that's the reason why I think. When she finally decided to do it, it was going to be a foolproof method. So, you know, cause it was just, this poor woman was living, you know, a living hell every day. And it was just, and towards the end as well, she just kept telling me she loved me a lot, which was kind of like. You know, looking back on it, you're like, Oh, okay. Like she's saying goodbye, maybe in a weird sense. So as far as the, the reason I don't think I told anyone right away is because I wanted to give her a chance to kind of be like, Hey, like, you know, what do you think I'm supposed to do with this information? Other than do what you keep saying is not going to help. And because, you know, she would just keep saying, you know, there's no hope. There's no help. This is what they do to you and all this stuff and so it was just like I was like well She's tried everything. What what do I know? You know,

CJ: 13:18

yeah, especially she's been dealing with that her whole life or dying her whole life Holy shit. So the then two months go by and then Waking up to that that horrific event. Yeah when when that Happened and they said you can cut her down. Like when you said that I, yeah. I, I, how, how, how do you even like Yeah. I wouldn't even find the, the strength to, to be able to do that.

Jake: 13:51

You know, everyone talks about the whole living in the moment thing. And as someone with pretty intense anxiety, I've learned that when you don't have time to think about stuff, you stay pretty calm and, and for whatever reason, cause they kept asking me these questions. I'm like, I don't know. Can I just cut her down? And they're like, yeah, of course. So in that instance, I, something in my brain was like, Jake, this is the last time like anyone's going to hold her. Like, this is like a very, this, although this is a horrific moment, it's still the end of her story. And I was just, What sucks so bad is I found like, I was like, wow, this is going to happen. And I'm the person to do it. Like this is, you know, like, unfortunately a huge honor for someone that I found so beautiful and amazing. And was so in love with that. I, I remembered it in a way, like I read something about a woman, like kind of pulling the plug on her husband, so to speak, like she was there when he died in the hospital and she didn't tell the nurse for like an hour. And And I think like her explanation of how death, although so terrible, and these are two different situations, it can, it's still a beautiful thing because they're no longer here. They're going, their spirit's gone somewhere else. So in a way, I was just so careful that I was like, I just, like I said, just took it as some weird honor of, I know that this is the end and I don't want it to be. But this is what it is. And what's kind of crazy about it is that like, because she was dead weight, her foot put a hole in the wall at the bottom of the stairs. And until like maybe this past winter, I hadn't, because I am a house painter by trade and I kind of learned how to do wall repair. And I, it was, it was in a spot where like no one who walked by it could see it except for me, but it was big enough that like, you know, you could stick a, you know, a couple of fingers in there or whatever. So, I mean, it was noticeable, but not if you didn't look down at it. So. I finally like filled that hole and just it seemed like such a metaphor of although this hole is no longer gone like that wall is never the same and it's always going to have you know that fucked up part that happened to it and so like it was just such a mind blowing thing to think about that having to do with With taking her down. And like I said, I think anyone who would be like, like a lot of people throughout this have said, I could never imagine. And I go, I don't want you to, but you wouldn't know until you're in that situation, what you would do.

CJ: 16:24

That's right. Yeah. It's, it's very much like there, you don't have a choice. Like a lot of people are just like, Oh, I don't want to be in your shoes. Or I can never do that. And it's like, but you, you don't have a choice and you, you do just go, yeah, you

Ashley: 16:37

you would just do it.

CJ: 16:38

Yeah. Yeah. And I do think there is something like, I think what touched me the most is when you're describing that is, is I think it is a beautiful moment in the midst of tragedy, like just being able to hold her and carry her. Like when my wife passed. You know, the kids and I had our last moment with her and then, and then we left and, and, and other people cleaned her up and, and got her ready to go. But like, there is something very beautiful about being able to, to kind of have that moment with you too, before the chaos starts now, there's so many like, I am curious about kind of the experience of the, the mental health services and the failure of that, but we don't have to talk about that if that's not something you want to or feel equipped to.

Jake: 17:25

No, I am more than willing real well, real quick, like the, the thing is, is I've been Because she had this from so many close people to her. I always like once it happened, I quickly turned it to just having to explore, not having to, but feeling the responsibility to explain it to all these people because she was such a light and it was a blind side for so many people. So I am more than, unfortunately more than comfortable to talk. Like I, I talked to at least over a hundred people about it in depth after right after it happened. And so I'm pretty comfortable talking about as much as.

CJ: 18:00

Yeah, just I'm curious the experience of the failure. So we've had other guests who have had different medical situations. And, and I think it's very enlightening to hear kind of the failures of our systems, you know, specifically in the United States or the folks that we've talked to. So, in regards to like her seeking out help and having an actual text and a history, of like diagnosis and potential attempts. What is their criteria then to say, OK, we're gonna we're gonna help? Or is it more that she was able to convince them that she didn't need help?

Jake: 18:38

Well, the huge part of it in New York state is they consider mental health and drug An addiction to different things, although they almost all the time coincide and overlap. So with her situation, because the instance with the knives happened while she was intoxicated you know, that's what made it very difficult to have to prove what they had to prove unless she just voluntarily went. And because there was knives and quote unquote weapons involved, the police had to come. So. We basically were staging an intervention while waiting for the police and she, you know, a very liberal minded woman and always good at backing up her opinion on things was very anti police. So the, you know, it got to the point where her brother had to be like, we're waiting for the police. Like that's, that's what we're waiting for is once the police get here, that means. People can come in and talk to you. And it was well over two hours because she was just mocking the whole situation, which I could not blame her. But even beyond that, you know, her sister, Megan, had talked about how, you know, there was a night where Jen was, you know, in her early twenties, desperately like, I'll go just take me wherever. And her sister went to three different private places. And And they just would not let her in, whether it's because of her age, her insurance, whatever it was. And she had, Jen had shared experiences with me in Massachusetts when she was in college, how her friend had a straight up mental breakdown. And no questions asked, they took care of it. Their facilities were just somehow better. And they, you know, diagnosed improperly. So she had seen mental health. And she had, I'm sure had instances where her mental health, she had to get help in Massachusetts, she had seen where it can work and where, you know, in New York state, you're just like, you literally go into ECMC, you see people rubbing their own shit on the walls and go, you know what, I can go home and figure this out. I, Cannot be in this environment like it's just the whore and it's again like with the crisis services It's no one's fault. There's lacks of resources. People are overworked. They're tired And then like when the police finally showed up, you know There was three officers two of them were just chit chatting and the one stood by me and actually asked like so What happened, you know and like actually gave a shit. And so it's just From top to bottom, just it's no one's fault, but the prop, because we did end up meeting with some political officials after the fact and the problem is the laws with mental health and addiction kind of not being, you know, you have to treat them separately, even though it's, they basically told, cause I was, we, we ended up asking, well, what do we do if she's displaying this behavior while she's drunk and they go, well, then the police would take her away. So it's, yeah, so it was just, that was the big flaw is the two things that should go hand in hand were just, they're treated separately by law.

CJ: 21:37

It's almost like they're, they're each pointing at the other and it's like, well, they have to go to it. Well, the police have to do it. The mental service has to do it. And it's, and it's, and it like sounds like there's, there's no nuance. It's like either these extreme mental break cases with, you know, people rubbing shit on the wall, whereas like there's a spectrum of care that needs to happen and yeah. So it sounds like a lack of resources that, that fucking sucks so much. So let's, uh, so much, so much, so much is going through my mind right now. Yeah. Before I forget, so I want to go back to kind of that moment that you had with with her dad, but I want to ask first. Are you still performing stand up and have you since you lost her?

Jake: 22:21

Oh, yeah. I so on Tuesdays, I actually host co host a room with my best friend. I went to high school with and it's right at walking distance from where Jenna and I lived and where I still live. And So that, it happened on a Tuesday, the night we're supposed to do that. And so like, yes, I still do it. And the not drinking part cause I, I haven't drank since has made it such a different experience where I'm just so grateful to get to do it, especially with everything going on in the world and people having so little freedoms in a lot of places that the fact that I get to just go up and say what's on my mind, but also feeling the responsibility to make people not feel as shitty as I do sometimes is something I really enjoy as a responsibility. And, you know, like the ego. Is the big thing right now because people can just pop off with social media and get a viral moment that egos are flying around all the time. And I'm just, after everything with Jen and with my grief journey stand up and comedy has just made me so grateful to just be alive. And and like, you know, there's been so many moments where I've been in front of like four people, but they're all paying attention. And it just It's like, wow, these people might remember part of this for the rest of their life, and I've just it's brought me opportunities and moments. I've never thought imaginable. So, yes, yes, I've continued doing it.

CJ: 23:46

Yeah, I think you answered, but I'll ask anyways, is like, has has doing stand up? Has it changed? Since she passed, do you bring in your grief into your standup, into your routine?

Jake: 24:01

So I, my humor had always been dark, and Jen had a dark sense of humor, so whenever we could laugh about dark mental health and suicide, we would. And although I feel long, far, if ever, able to talk about suicide jokes, I don't know. Bye. Seeing other comics, especially ones I admired, being able to do it, it brings so much therapy to me. So, I try to just stay away from it, because I'm just not good at it yet, if I, I don't know if I ever will be. But, I appreciate it to the point that I did reach out to this comic in L. A. who, who has some, Just had some amazing clips of these jokes talking about, you know, attempting and whatnot. And you know, I messaged him basically saying, I'm sure you get a lot of, you know, people that don't. I just, I basically just informed him, you know, how it helped me and how I wanted to just keep sharing stuff like this. Cause it makes you vulnerable, but it's very important. And he, he told me how many friends he had lost to suicide and it was in the twenties just in the last couple of years. And the thing that like really stuck out to me is a phrase I've heard so many times, but hearing it from him say everything he goes, everything good and bad is temporary. And that. applies to comedy itself so much because of the highs and lows of performing that, you know, you just, when, when you, someone says, Hey man, that was a great set in the back of your head. You're just like, yeah, but the next one might suck. Like you're just never satisfied. And that's helped me just also enjoy the moment. And, and the thing is too, because there are so many mentally ill people doing comedy, let alone in Buffalo, that I've. I hear people all the time, like you could get an easy laugh by talking, just saying, Oh, I want to kill myself right now. It's crazy. It's crazy how that will just get people to laugh. And I have people come up to me all the time and they say something like that. And I just look at them and I just go, well, guess what, man? Like this could all end in five minutes anyways. And they're just like, Oh wow. So, yeah, I deal with the weird mental, like people not realizing what they're saying all the time, as far as like, it's just so good and bad how there's just so well crafted suicide jokes. And then some very like, you didn't mean that. Like, what are you doing?

CJ: 26:21

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, not, not, not elevating the discussion, but just using it as a cheap, a cheap imitation for true humor. But it is like, yeah, it's, it's, it's fascinating to me because so I, I have a very dark sense of humor as well. And my wife did and we use humor to cope, right? We use humor to cope and specifically stand up. So, you know, I, I, like when I tell people that comedy and humor is important to me, like, I don't think people understand the gravity of that, especially like in grief where when we told, so I have three children and we told them, you know, my wife had cancer, but she, she she had it for six years before she passed. And when we told them like, Hey, this, this is it. You know, there's no more medicine. There's nothing more we can do. We cried together, we held together as a family, and literally the next moment, we put stand up on. And my kids were young, you know, but like, that's what we did. And we allowed ourselves to laugh and to find solace in people who are elevating kind of some of these heavier topics as well. So I think it's, it's really beautiful to hear. I mean, I can almost like feel it from you, like how you have, have used that to, to help in your journey. So taking it back to that moment When when you you discovered her and then these police are grilling you and making a difficult situation even worse

Ashley: 27:46

Yeah,

CJ: 27:47

and then her father kind of saying those things to you What what happened to you when when he said those things like did you take it in? Did you understand?

Jake: 27:59

I was so heartbroken when I was just like, you know, I was like, cause then her sister came and the first thing she, she was like, you were home. And like, I knew what she meant, but it was just, it was just like, I let everyone down, which I know wasn't the case because what's, what's crazy is I, when I came home that night, you know, this happened like early in the morning, I came home that night after, you know, going to her parents house and I came home. Right. And like I said, the police were in here for a while. So for this to happen, where I opened the door and I see a piece of the fabric that she used to, you know, and I see the piece of fabric, a giant piece of it too. Like it was not there by coincidence. And I just saw it and I picked it up and I like threw it out right away. I called my sister and I like, I was like, yo, I'm freaked out right now. And she goes, Jake, go in the garbage and take that out. And yeah. That was just me realizing Jen was telling me, Hey dude, like you have nothing to do with this. Like this is, this was all me, man. You know, like that's all I could take from that moment. And that was just, as soon as I found that, you know, I just, it all hit where I was like, all the things we said we were going to do aren't going to happen. And that was like just the, the worst feeling in the world. But you know, Like I said, I spent most of the wake and funeral just consoling people. Cause that's all I knew how to do. I had lived with it so close for the last couple of months that I was everything. She was scared of people finding out they were finding out. And that's what like really sucked. And even the night and what's tough is you have to deal with how everyone else is dealing with it. And one of the things that happened, I found out the night she did pass, everyone went to the place that. We would be at for comedy anyways and sort of, you know, once they found out the news, like a bunch of her friends had gathered and word had gotten out how she had taken her life. And because like a month before that she had been published in the paper speaking out against a former music venue she had worked at. Someone Thought, oh no, she never would have done that. Someone must have murdered her, which

Ashley: 30:08

is,

Jake: 30:09

yeah. So this is like a rumor I'm hearing through the grapevine, but it's one of those situations where you go back to anytime a celebrity kills himself and it's, Always turns into the, you know, the conspiracy, Oh, you know, the government had them killed. And I was finally understanding that from this terrible situation that, you know, this is just how people cope. And I can't get mad about it. But it got to the point where they like were asking neighbors for cameras and footage. So it was, you know, you can't, you take it personally a little bit because you're like, Hey dude, I was there. That's crossing a line. Yeah, so it people are really

Ashley: 30:46

nosy,

Jake: 30:47

right? Right. And that's the terrible part about it. But you, you know, there was just parts of a lot of uncomfortable situations where I learned to just, I have to be comfortable here. I just have to deal with it. And, you know, obviously, like you deal with, you know, I don't think I don't know if you had to deal with the CJ, but like I did have to deal with ex boyfriends and ex, you know, people that I've heard terrible stories about where I was, you know, just hugging them and just putting aside whatever emotions I may have had, but everything in me. Jen could just, we finished each other's sentences. That's how, you know, you know, we were soulmates. So like, I could just hear her in my head the whole time and still to still do every day. But like, just as I was going through the process, just hear things like, Hey man, just give him a hug. Like just tell him you love him. Like just the stuff that would probably be sound insane to anyone else. But it was just. The only thing I could think to do in this time, and, you know, I was like, I'll have my own moments to deal with this, but right now, like, these people are just surprised where I'm also surprised, but I unfortunately was here for it every step of the way, so. You know, it was, it was just, that's where I was like, okay, I'm, I can talk about people deserve to know just so they don't take it personally because so many people that they're like, Oh, I could have done something. And that's, that's the part you can't stand.

CJ: 32:12

Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley: 32:13

And that is that a lot of it may be because. She was so good at hiding it.

Jake: 32:17

She was just the happiest, you know, They wrote in her obituary, they quoted me as saying, like, you could hear her before you saw her in a room. And she was, she was just a naturally loud person in the best way. But, you know, that was, Like you would hear and just feel the sense of comfortability and she would hug you like she was just one of those people that made you feel so happy when you walked in a room and if she was meeting you for there were so many people that said I only met her once but she, you know, it was the most memorable meeting and so she was just a huge impact on the community that I was meeting people I'd never met, I'd only heard stories from. And about so, which also shows how much she cared about so many people. So there, yes, that was the thing is she was so good at hiding it, but unfortunately from where she grew up in South Buffalo, a lot of people could relate to what she'd went through, had seen it, had gone through it, but you kind of just have to be tough. That's the stigma with you know, mental health is just bury it. And keep going.

CJ: 33:17

Yeah. Yeah. Which is wild. Then 2024, we're still having this like, inability to see that it's an injury just as much as another injury for lack of a better word. Now it's interesting to hear you like describe. It's like you're seeing these people. You, you know, some of like how they have been. So maybe there's not so great people and having to essentially just show them love and compassion. And there's this idea that You know, grief. Grief is this container that we hold, that we have when we experience these things. And to the depths that we can feel our grief is the same depths that we can feel love, compassion, and joy. And, and I wonder, like, in those moments, if the depths of what you were feeling was enabling you to, to have, like, this extraordinary type of compassion that maybe you otherwise didn't have before. And and that gave you kind of that, that strength to do that. But moving forward after kind of everything settles down I'm assuming it was probably a little bit longer for things to settle down because of the nature. And then it sounds like you said, people were like acting a fool about trying to get camera footage and all that shit. So as life began to begin again. What was that experience of rediscovering who you are post death and in your grief?

Jake: 34:54

So what was very unique about my experience is right before she passed, I had sort of asked her permission to work for her, one of her very good friends who was starting his own painting company. And at the time he had another one of their best friends working. So the two people. I worked with every day were also pallbearers at her funeral. That's like how close they were. So one of those two buddies, two days after Jen passed away, his wife decided they want, she wanted a divorce after only two months of marriage. So there was this extreme situation where I was working every day with two of her best friends. One of them was. Going through a very quick divorce after or a divorce after a very quick marriage So all three of us were just going through a whirlwind of emotions And it got to the point where his mental health started to decline rapidly and I had to sort of have an intervention with him At a point where I felt like I was not the guy to tell you. Hey, man, you need to get your head straight but like what had happened was this you know, we had gotten in an argument, me and this buddy, and we went home. And for the weekend and I went out with some friends to do a show or something and I remember drinking some mushroom tea and I get home and this is the craziest thing but there was a two full water bottles and I get home and one of them was completely flipped over you know like like that standing standing straight up on the cap like a full water bottle and I just stared at it terrified Obviously it was something that was not there before. And then I started laughing because I was like, okay. This is a sign of whatever. So I just laid on the bed and like looked up and I was like, yo, dude, like what's, you know, what's the message here. And it was, so then I reached out to my buddy and I ended up talking, it got to the point where I had, they sent me to stage an intervention with him to go get his head straight. And it kind of, it kind of felt like I had this moment where I could kind of not redeem myself, but like kind of do it differently for someone else. Who also, because he had lost his brother to suicide. So it was just this very weird situation of, okay, Jake, like you, you have to just. It just comes down to how we're all dealing with trauma. We don't, we're, we're not diagnosing and just all these things where it was just so quick that I had to, that kind of put my healing process on hold and it got to the point where later that summer him and I had a falling out and he, he basically like told me, I was the one that made him want to kill himself. Oh my gosh, just, just out of a pure argument. So, and I only bring this up because it's, it's something where I'm like, is this really happening as part of like this whole grief thing? And it was something I really had to like, heal within myself and, and just like, say, Jake, you know, like, Hey man, like just, it taught me how I had to start keeping my circle tighter, tighter and just taking more care of myself. And then, but something that happened Within a month of Jen passing, that was a very eye opening experience as far as the spiritual realm of things, is that Because as soon as someone very close to you passes, I did lose my dad in November of 2019. So I had, I had some experience with grief, but you do, you do automatically just want to know that their spirit is somewhere. Like you just feel like this sense of like, there is no afterlife. There's no nothing. Like I just need something. And so right after Jen passed away, I, Call it, you know, I told my sister, she was in New York City. I was going to go visit her for a while. Like just go to a show in New York City to just feel like I got away for a moment where no one would know me in New York City, far away, far enough away. And I remember getting on a train early in the morning and I was ready to just fall asleep and close my eyes for however long. And then the first stop in Rochester, this guy gets on and he's a, he's a intimidating man comes all the way to the back of the train for some reason, sits next to me is clearly very like excited and nervous and whatnot. I can't sit still. And then within like 10 minutes starts talking to me, just small talk and. All of a sudden just out of nowhere says, yeah, this is my first time traveling since I got out of prison. He goes, I spent, oh my

Ashley: 39:25

gosh. Wow. Yeah. He

Jake: 39:26

goes, I, I spent the last 30 years in prison for murder. And I was like, alright. Wow. I was like, so this is gonna be an interesting conversation. And then he, like, I'm just not phased because Jen would always, she would always quote the Muppets take Manhattan and say peoples is peoples. So I was just so used to just talking to whoever about anything. But then he's explained to me all about the prison system. I go, Hey man, like just to save you some breath, you know, I grew up, my dad was a corrections officer and he goes, where? And it turns out it was one of the prisons he had spent a significant amount of time No fucking way. Yeah. So he, I ended up pulling up a picture of my dad and he was like, Oh, I remember him, you know, and the, and explains how he used to make whether the weather, the belts, the, but you know, the baton holders, all this stuff. And I immediately remembered being a kid. And like the one thing I was obsessed with on my dad's work belt was like this pouch. He carried the medical gloves in. I was like, Oh shit. I go, I wonder if this is the guy that made that thing. I was for whatever reason, obsessed.

CJ: 40:25

Way.

Jake: 40:26

Yeah, so it was just this wild interaction. He's at, we're on the train the whole time. We ended up like smoking a couple of cigarettes together. He ends up giving me like a hand rolled gifted cigar, which he, I don't even think he remembered, but my dad's, that was his vice was cigars. So he gives me this giant cigar. I think I like trained him a couple of joints or something as a And he like he, he ends up going, Hey man, the train's filling up. Can I like sit next to you? You know, let's let like this couple sit. So he ends up, I go, okay, man, but I want the window seat. And I ended up, he was just so excited to tell me stories. And he told me his whole story about, you know, what he did and this, that and everything, but I like fell asleep as he was talking to me is how tired I was. And I just think back on it. Like, I don't know many people that would. Just so confidently fall asleep next to someone that told

CJ: 41:14

them,

Jake: 41:14

yeah, they were capable of taking a human life and they knew that. So I just, I get to New York city and I like tell my mom and my sister was like, Hey, like, I don't think you believe this. So that was like the first realization that, you know, okay, there's, They're, they're looking out for me, you know, Jen and my dad are looking out for me and then, but it was, so then going through my own healing process with the mental health thing, like it just kept, it kept reappearing that friends weren't doing good, that I was in these situations where I needed to, you know, somehow consult them. And then it gets to the point where. The one year anniversary of her passing comes up and I, the only real therapy I'd done was like this group therapy through a, like a church that was in an old Sears, like something banana, something free that was just a group therapy with all these older people that had lost their spouse of 30 some years. So, I was still just lost and, and still doing comedy sober and having, or off of alcohol I should say, and having positive experiences, but just not finding that enjoyment anymore where I'm just like really struggling to have like a moment where I'm happy to be alive and then the one year comes, it was very difficult, but then Like right around New Year's, it was like the night before New Year's Eve. And I went to show, I could walk down the street to this venue to see these two bands that Jen and I had actually seen right before she passed for like our anniversary, it was like these two local bands we loved. And I remember just having this profound moment where I was just. Like the music was just so intense and enjoyable that I just had this moment where I was like, man, you know, you get to exist during this time when like all these beautiful things exist. When these three guys in front of you somehow met are making this incredible music and just this, finally having that moment of like, wow, all these emotions I felt are, are a beautiful thing. Like you said, because we're so complex because we're humans and there's so much more. Then just the, the day to day, you know, stuff. And, you know, yes, it's a survival of the fittest, but there, there's just so much beauty that it, it finally, I finally felt that sense of, okay, I'm, I'm back to enjoying things and not feeling like, you know, this, this cloud is going to be here forever. And. It's, you know, now this summer and everything, I'm finally going out and doing things again and just buying tickets for things and figuring out the day of, you know, who's, who's going to go, what's going to happen and, and whatnot, but it's still to the point where you're there and you hear these things, you're like, damn it, Jen, you know, you just, just a little bit longer. You could be here with me. And, and, you know, just a lot of those moments have happened. And I just talked to her brother Brendan about it the other day, and he said something goes, but then, you know, part of your brain says, well, with these bad things going on in the world, how would she be reacting to that? And I'm like, well, you have to just hope that at this point, she would have been better. You know, that's just you just assume she would have been better. And that's what it all comes down to. And I just want to when I come, you know, I just constantly think about what's how do we fix mental health? You know, wellness and, and I don't think that there's ever really an answer from a medical standpoint, at least not for me to say, but life has just given me so many little interactions with people, different walks of life that just making someone feel heard is like the biggest game changer and, and just, you know, we're so new. Overwhelmed with, oh, you gotta help these foreign nations with their problems and these wars that we're, and it's like, You forgot about, you forgot about the person right next to you, who's, who's just, Barely keeping it together. And I've just had so many of these beautiful moments with people just going through it where they're just like, how do you, you know, how are you so happy? And, you know, I have to tell him like, I've, it feels like I've seen the finish line, like when it comes down to,

Ashley: 45:15

you

Jake: 45:15

know, Death and the funeral and all this stuff. And it's, you know, best quoted by Ricky Gervais, where dying is like being dumb. You know, you don't know what happened, but it sucks for the people around you. And like, that was the tough part is just, there's certain people, you know, that remember Jen, In the smallest of ways. And there's people like me and her family who just can't stop thinking about her. And that's the thing where you just have to figure out how they're going to, how you're going to honor them, how, and that's the thing is she was just so good at making people not feel sad that it's like, you know what, I can still do that. And that's what I'm going to keep doing. And it's just so you can do it just by asking someone how they're doing. It's so easy just to be like, how was your day? And people will just be like, you know what? It's, it's been all right. So.

CJ: 46:02

Yeah. Yeah. So many people don't. genuinely ask, how are you? It's more of like, just a turn of phrase. But yeah, I mean, what, what we need the most is just to feel heard. And I think that's, that goes a long way because I've observed the same thing in all walks of my life, work, personal, all that stuff where you see people and you think they have it together. But if you just sit down for five minutes, you realize. Nobody really does, and we're just figuring out as we go, but when we, when we look around and it seems like everybody has it together, that makes things harder. But if we could just see that people are struggling, it helps us to know that we're not alone. And I think just not feeling alone goes so far. So far for us

Jake: 46:52

and you know, I heard I had a comment You know I heard a comic say they were talking about like being raised by a single mother and they had the realization that Your parents are all doing it for the first time like everyone's just doing everything for the first time and it's just that's the thing I keep reminding myself is although there's people that have great advice. It's not gonna work for you So that's right.

CJ: 47:13

You have to find what works for you. Yeah. And it's interesting. It's like this idea of, of like we're swimming in our grief and we have to find our way to shore. And that getting to shore is different for, for each person. Like I've realized for me right now, it's, it's being. present minded, present focus to love and appreciation, which is the counterbalance to the way that my grief was being expressed, which was anger and frustration, you know, so, a lot of what I hear from you is, is, is becoming focused on what's in front of you. You know, the band and finding the, the enjoyment in life. And it's funny you said you would buy tickets. So I did that for probably at least a year where I would just buy two tickets to every comedy show that I wanted to go to every standup show. And I would just be like, you know, a week before, Hey, I got a ticket. Someone want to go with me? If they didn't, I went alone. If they did great. I'd, I'd have somebody to go with, but like, it was

Ashley: 48:16

just, Yes,

CJ: 48:16

that's right. I forgot you

Ashley: 48:18

guys did. That's right. I took two of those. Yeah, that's

CJ: 48:22

right. I was like, Oh

Ashley: 48:23

yeah,

CJ: 48:25

that's right. But it's you, it's finding ways to, to see life again, because I think what feels like a common experience is that. When, when we have these significant moments of death in our life and that significance could be different for each person, but it's something significant enough that we, we tend to, to lose our graphs on the future. Not that we want to, or we can't see it, it just, it doesn't exist. Like that, that the, the slate has been wiped clean and now we have to figure out, well, who are we? And then what do we put back in that picture of the future? And it takes time. It takes time, but it takes confrontation with our grief. So, so in this like journey that you have been going on, which is still very recent, what Are the things that you have found that have helped you kind of confront your grief and and allow it to be something that You can hold versus something that crushes you.

Jake: 49:30

Oh man, I would say it come, you have to like, it's been discussed so many times here, I think, and I think I already kind of mentioned it, but it's just, you have to go through it and you have to realize as much as it sucks, it is a blessing. To feel something so intense and to get to the root. That is because you miss that person. You miss all these things about that person. They're never going to be anyone remotely close to that person. And then you kind of have to come back to the thing. Well, there's never going to be someone else like me either. And that's, that's. You know, like these theories of that you get to choose your timeline and just the fact that like ours happened, I was such a small blip in her timeline, but it was so impactful in mine. And, and to, you know, for that to just be the way that you can just cross paths with someone and for their, just this infinity chance of so many things happening and to know that I got that chance with that person. And I'm now stuck with this sadness, but. You know, it's there. There's like that expression of the top of every mountain is the bottom of another and I just keep telling myself. Yeah, but the view on the mountain with Jen was just there's never going to be a view like that again. You know,

CJ: 50:47

there's so much gratitude. Just pouring from you. And it's, it's quite beautiful, Jake. And I appreciate you sharing that. You've mentioned a few times like signs and just knowing that I believe you said your dad and then Jen were, we're looking out for you. So spirituality has been a journey for me. It's been a very bizarre and confronting journey. I'm curious if you have been to a medium, if you have for back of a letter, back For lack of a better word, if you have rituals or just ways that you connect back to that essence of, of your dad or Jen and, and to bring them and keep them in your life. And that could look different for everybody and you can insert whatever words you want there. But yeah, curious about that.

Jake: 51:36

Well, I grew up my grandma on my mom's side was, you know, Practicing medium of sorts, not where she like, yeah, not to the point where she like took in clients, but like she would, she has a lot of, she had a lot of friends, you know, that are still practicing at Lillydale and whatnot. And you know, people that have gone on to be very big in the community. And one story that I always remember is my dad, you know, he was very skeptical about it. And I remember he told me they were at a restaurant, he was sitting next to my grandma She looks at him and looks at a spoon and then proceeded to move the spoon without doing anything like on the floor Yeah, and he goes Jake on because he was a very Catholic religious man, and he was like Jake We looked at each other and I basically said, all right, I believe you now So I've always been very open to that. I've been to Lilydale. I watched You know, I've watched my own father be like, Oh shit. I think this is, there's something to this, but I, since Jen or my dad has passed away, I have not you know, had an appointment or met with a medium. And I would say Because Jen and I would all, you know, call each other our puzzle piece which I later found out is like the national symbol for autism. So I had to tell her that at one point, like, hey just so you know, I just think like we are the perfect fit. It has nothing to do with me thinking you're autistic. So, Like a couple times, like, I don't know how to describe it, but like one time I had to go through one of her things and there was a single, your, a single puzzle piece in there. And then,

Ashley: 53:03

you know,

Jake: 53:04

one time like a puzzle piece came flying out of nowhere when I was cleaning up at work real pissed off one day, like just certain instances like that. That's

CJ: 53:12

so cool.

Jake: 53:13

But then the thing I would say has been very profound between my dad and her is just whether it's music or comedy or just art in general, they felt it's felt like they've come through to me with the perfect example being there was this movie. I remember I almost. almost watched it with Jen, but it was too heavy of a topic. It's called four good days and it has Milo Kunis and Glenn Close in it and Glenn Close is her mother and it's based off of an article actually, but one day I just watched it. I think it was like this past winter and I just watched it and right off the start, it's a very intense movie about addiction and it just starts with. You know, the daughter who I never once thought Jen resembled this actress, Milo Kunis, at any point, or Mila, you know, and as soon as they show her in this movie, like the look in her eyes was a look I've seen so many times in Jen's eyes. And just from the start to the end, I just, it felt like it was, you know, Her, like she was portraying her from everything, from the way she held a cigarette to the way there was like this one part where she was like, you know, just sitting in the garage and was like, all right, I'll open the garage door. And these people walk by and like, they're like, make a nasty look at her. And she goes, all right, I'm done with this. Just this attitude that Jen had and just. The movie was about she, her mom finally says, do you really want help this time? And they find out that there's this potential help this medication, but she has to stay clean for, you know, a certain amount of time and it was four days. So she needs to stay clean for like four more good days. And it just demonstrates from an, from an addict, how difficult it a minute feels. And that's like the approach I've had to grief is like, it's minute by minute, some things can change so quickly. And, you know, Not drinking and you know, I've, it's been like a year and a half without cigarettes and the thing like. When it comes down to trying not to do something is you literally have to tell yourself I'm not going to do this right now. Like right now I'm going to go do something else. And like the amount of times a day I have to say, Hey, I'm not going to do this. And to know how intense that is for, you know, so many other people in this movie, it just, There was just all these parts where if you've dealt with someone you loved who's addicted or going through a mental health crisis, you will be so drawn to it. But at the end of the movie, like the one thing she keeps trying to do to keep her mind off of drugs is putting a puzzle together. And at the very end of the movie, her and her mom put like the last puzzle piece together. And it was just the cry I had and like the It just ends in a way where you have hope. And I was just like, you know what, although she's no longer here, that feeling of hope can just be applied to so many, there's so many other gens out there that I feel like that's how she comes through to me is to just, you know, there's still so many other people. You know, there's a very good quote from Eat, Pray, Love about your soulmate and like they're meant to just show you, break you down and show you, you know, the things you need to fix and how, you know, you can fix other things. And I think that's what she really did to me was just show me how there's, although she needed a break from this world because it was a living hell, you know, There's other people that, you know, they're still around, so it's never gonna bring her back or make that better, but it's like the only thing you can kind of say to yourself is, well, there's still enough people going through this shit that, you know, I can take what I've learned and apply it there.

CJ: 56:55

Yeah. And I think it's the, the idea you mentioned, I think it was just like, how grief is the minute by minute thing and came across. My grandma says that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, really?

Ashley: 57:06

Yeah. Yeah, he says that all the time. Minute by minute.

CJ: 57:10

Yeah. Minute by minute.

Ashley: 57:11

Sometimes day by day is too much.

CJ: 57:13

It's way too much.

Ashley: 57:14

Just got to make it to the next minute.

CJ: 57:16

Yep. I ran across, I can't remember what book I was reading, but the idea, there was a quote from a, And it was like every hour is a new beginning and it's just like it stuck with me. I'm just like, that's right. It's like, we have to approach this of like this minute or this hour, this day, whatever that timescale is for you is new. It's, it's not the idea of like, well, you got through the past timescale, the past minute or the past hour. But it helps shift my thinking of like, but now this next one. is brand new and there gets to be new choices in it and potentially new growth and maybe joy, maybe even joy. You know, if we're, we're fortunate enough to, to be in position to have that. So, yeah. So before we let you go we want to ask if you have one or two favorite memories of Jen that you'd want to share with us and the audience.

Jake: 58:13

So yeah, my favorite Ooh, that is tough, but if there's like one story I've told twice now at like the benefit we hold for her every year is that because it just, it's, it's an inappropriate story, but it's hysterical because it has to do with just doing what she loved going out and seeing concerts. And I dragged her to not drag her. She wanted to go, but we went on this trip to Cooperstown to see one of my favorite bands. And it was like, right. The point of COVID where Like the number, it was still less full capacity. So there's still probably like 2000 people outside in this field in Cooperstown and her and I were standing in line getting beer and we had both taken some psychedelics and we were waiting for them to kick in. So we're like facing the stage, but in the beer line, we're parallel. So like she sees flashes and she goes, Jake, I think there's like, you know, a storm coming. I'm like, no, that's like them just testing out the lights. And then two songs in to the band playing, they literally are playing a song called fuck your acid trip. I like can I could not make this up as soon as soon like this is right as the crowds like really getting into it and then they finish and the lead singer goes hey do you guys like electricity and the crowd goes nuts and he goes well oh my gosh love that there's a storm coming and we need to evacuate and

Ashley: 59:32

no

Jake: 59:33

the band leaves and then this guy comes over the announced speaker but he's got like the reverb on so his voice is like Echoing it sounds like he's also on drugs and he's saying that we have to leave we have to go to the you know You could camp so we had to go back to our tents And then no one's moving because we're all like no like we can't leave we're high and then like security's coming up trying to get us to to leave. And the guy's like, you got to go back to your, you got to go back to your car. You can't go back to your tent. I'm like, why can't I go back to my tent? And he goes, because it's not grounded. And I was like, well, you're grounded. So, you know, we have to just try to get together and get out of there. And I remember as we were leaving one guy's like, man, I can't wait 20 minutes. Like I just took mushrooms and you know, like people are,

Ashley: 1:00:21

oh my God, because of

Jake: 1:00:23

this. And then her and I remember just her and I being out there just. Talking to other people, like one of those moments where you're forced to talk to people, not forced to, but you naturally talk to people you never would have. And I remember just laughing so hard to the point. And then, you know, like, I remember, You know, trying to look at the Doppler to see if the storms coming and it just wasn't working out to the point where you finally hear the music start again and we got to just enjoy the music and it went on longer than it should have and it was just one of those moments where it was like you learned to dance through the rain and yeah, you know, I was so I was so happy to get to share that moment with her and then You know, like the next year she ended up like surprising me with tickets to see that band because of her connections with the music venue. And what was crazy about that is one of the members of the band ended up dying like a month after she died. So it was kind of this, these beautiful moments that I got to share with her looking back on it where she carried, like, she ended up buying me this like 200 150 jacket at one of the shows where I was just like, It was so much money to me. And she's like, no, like this is, you know, I know how much you love this. And so like things like that were just showed how much you like, love the things I love, like really made a huge difference. So I think that's like the one I would have to pick because it was just us being, you know, Goofy.

CJ: 1:01:45

That's amazing.

Jake: 1:01:46

Thank you.

CJ: 1:01:47

Well, we appreciate you sharing your journey. I know. I feel like we just scratched the surface of it, but thank you for the, yeah, the vulnerability. Thank you for sharing Jen with us.

Jake: 1:01:58

Oh, that's all right. We covered a lot. But I just wanted to say, I love, you know, I love what you guys are doing. Like, it's not easy as, like I said, from the comedy background, like I know a bunch of people that have tried to do podcasts, it's like a very difficult thing and what you guys are doing letting people be vulnerable is life changing. So thank you guys so much.

CJ: 1:02:21

Thank you for listening to this episode of the day after you can find this podcast and more at our website at www. thedayafter. com if you enjoyed this episode, we'd really appreciate it. If you could take a moment to leave us a review, wherever you listen to your podcast.